Charles: … It took us 20 years to get onto their panel. We kept asking to be involved in the decisions that were being made about Gypsies. They never spoke to us. We was allowed to go and watch but not participate. And they eventually thought it was a good idea to have a Gypsy on there and the power started to change slightly and we did get a seat on there..not voting but like an advisory seat – but when we gave advice and it wasn't what they wanted to hear, it was goodbye.

Cemlyn: What did they do? Did they stop sending the minutes or..?

Charles: No. They still send us the minutes and..give us some money. Not very much, about a 200 quid donation..I think they thought they’d bought us basically.

Cemlyn: Did they just say you can't come anymore?

Charles: Well no, they threatened us. They said if you’re not in agreement with our sort of policies and things like that, you know, we can’t..we won't be able to guarantee you get the money anymore. So we wrote back and said, well you can stick the money because we’re not bought that cheaply. And then that didn't work so they decided they couldn't have us as representatives because we didn't represent every single Gypsy in the country. So I argued that they [councillors] as a political party did not represent every single person in the county of XXXX so how can they sit there and make decisions. And they didn't like that. I was basically an ‘uppity nigger’ and they didn't like it. You’re not allowed to have an opinion. They wanted someone to say yes, it's a very good idea and then they could go away and say they’d consulted with the Gypsies.